Episode 360. The Secret to Hacking Your Habits to Reach Your Goals with Neill Williams

Speaker 1 (00:06): 

Hello everybody. Welcome back. So I have a treat today. I am interviewing a friend of mine most of, I went to the life coach school back in 2015 and I have loved my time with the Life Coach school and I’ve been privileged to be able to teach classes there and do things. And through that I got to know Katie Pulsifer. We worked together on several things from events to master coach training. And I’ve always just thought of Katie as not only is she very much a professional through and through, but kind and one of the most whip smart coaches that I’ve ever come across. She can ask a question like no fucking body can. So I wanted to bring her on our podcast. She is now doing her own thing. She’s going to introduce herself. I want you to tell everyone about your new adventure, just who you are, how you got started coaching, all the things.  

Speaker 1 (01:07): 

And then we’re going to talk today about Grace, which is a topic that I’ve never covered on the podcast, never talked about it at all. And I think for our listeners, it’s going to be helpful because one of the things that my people struggle the most with is being nice to themselves, being able to roll through a problem or a mistake or anything that they think is somehow something’s wrong with me and not having any kind of grace. So I think it’s going to be a fascinating conversation. I really look forward to it. And so Katie, tell us all about you.  

Speaker 2 (01:45): 

Thank you very much and I have been looking forward to seeing you in this capacity, so thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. So I hired a coach back in 2012, so I have been receiving this work for a long, long time now, and just I am absolutely sold on coaching as being one of the key things that helps me live my best life. Doesn’t mean I’m always happy, let’s be clear, but it really helps me live the life that I want to live. And certified at LCS had the privilege of working with you, all kinds of programs there. And I just finished my five and a half years, which I think I hold the record of working there and being involved in incredible things, perfecting my coaching, training, coaching coaches, running programs. And since 2024 just now, I am back in my business and thrilled to be here. I actually started it in 2015 and I’ve always had a couple clients on the side, but now I am all in so excited and honored to help Gen X women, the rule followers  

Speaker 1 (03:07): 

That are  

Speaker 2 (03:08): 

Tirelessly pursuing all the things and perfectly only to experience that crushing sensation that they’re actually doing it all wrong. So I’m helping them break their own rules, become a little bit more rebellious so they never feel wrong again. And I’ve already been working with a few people in the last couple of months and seeing them go from resentful and exhausted and depleted to proud and accomplished and energized. There’s nothing better than that. And one of the secret ingredients in that as well is grace, which we’re going to talk about today. So it’s such a key part of their journey.  

Speaker 1 (03:55): 

I totally agree. I mean, even when I was looking at what we were going to talk about today, I was sitting there thinking about how, especially for Gen X, I love what you said, how you help us break all of our rules because I think we’re walking around with a shit ton of rules that we don’t even know that we’re trying to live by that are depleting us to death, especially that perfectionistic rules. I got to be everything to everyone. So let’s dive into grace. First of all, I think we just need to define it for everyone. What is grace to you and how do you teach it?  

Speaker 2 (04:34): 

Yes. So if you look it up, it’s defined as courteous goodwill, and a graceful person might be someone who’s described as having a disposition of kindness or compassion. And then I think it’s really interesting, once you do a little bit of research on grace, you immediately find the famous quote from Ernest Hemmingway that talks all about courage is grace under pressure. So I think we can conjure up what we think that means. And I love thinking of it as all of these things, kindness and compassion. But I think too often it’s only associated with a way to cope with challenge versus a way to live your life. And that’s what I think is really interesting to talk about.  

Speaker 1 (05:30): 

Well, tell me that. What is the difference between those two, between coping, but it being a way you live your life?  

Speaker 2 (05:37): 

I think coping is okay, well things are hard right now and I’ve got to kind of grit in or  

Speaker 1 (05:47): 

Just make it until this date.  

Speaker 2 (05:49): 

Yes, yes, exactly.  

Speaker 1 (05:51): 

My swan song is always, there’s always some date in the, I can see it in the future where everything’s going to be better and then that date comes, I’m like, holy shit, I think I just put more crap on my plate. My date has moved.  

Speaker 2 (06:06): 

Yes, exactly. Exactly. So it might feel fleeting or temporary or a way to just grin and bear it and get through something challenging versus grace could be a way to actually live your life, treat yourself, think about yourself, show up for yourself, forgive yourself. And I’ve thought about this a lot because I think it’s one of these things that I’m actually really good at and I’ve always been really good at of just having grace for myself. And I didn’t realize really that other people, I definitely have stuff I struggle with, don’t get me wrong, but this comes pretty easily to me. And so it’s been really, really fun to help people embody more grace, more acceptance, more kindness.  

Speaker 1 (07:01): 

So let me ask you this, just in weight loss land, so where I would see, especially with our Gen X women, they are so hard on themselves. So let’s pretend that we’ve got, I’ll just take any no BSS woman who, one of the things that I teach them is make a 24 hour plan, so we’re going to put the foods on it that we’re going to eat for the next 24 hours, and very often they don’t follow that plan. They have zero grace for themselves. Yeah. What would having grace look like versus, because this is what I know they’re going to be thinking. I be letting myself off the hook.  

Speaker 2 (07:42): 

Right.  

Speaker 1 (07:45): 

Do you have any thoughts on that? What the differences would be?  

Speaker 2 (07:48): 

So I mean, I think letting yourself off the hook is maybe just accepting the first excuse that your brain gives you of just like, oh yeah, it was a really hard day. Or Oh, I really deserved to have that thing I had instead of being on my protocol or my food plan or whatever, having grace might be, it was a really hard day and I made this decision and I knew better and I made it anyway, and I’m going to sit with myself and see what I can learn about myself and how can I bolster myself up? How can I actually love myself in this moment of seeing myself want something and not follow through on it and be accepting of like, yeah, that’s all me, right? That’s the whole story. That is the whole truth about me right now instead of maybe then also jumping into, I never do these things. I’m not good at this. This is never going to work for me. It’s just in isolation in that moment. I wanted something I didn’t follow through on it. What’s here for me to learn and how can I be a little bit better tomorrow?  

Speaker 1 (09:11): 

I love the part about what’s here for me to learn, because I think that that’s where I notice letting yourself off the hook is almost like accepting. It’s like if I break my plan, I love what you said about it is because I had a bad day, so I’ll just start over tomorrow. There’s no learning. It’s just like I’m not going to understand what made my day bad. I’m not going to understand do I have any authority and control over that going on in the future. There’s no understanding as to why I turned to food in the first place. Are there other things I can turn to? Can I turn inward? There’s grace to me is like what you were saying, it’s this whole bodied experience with it. It’s not just, well, I suck. I had a bad day. I’m going to try to do better tomorrow. And it’s just like dead stop. We learned nothing.  

Speaker 2 (10:03): 

Right? Right. And I also think what I’m experiencing a little bit now in my life is grace is also admitting those screw ups or whatever they are to your inner circle or to your people and to actually saying, I’m really struggling with this and I’m sharing it with you. As part of being more authentic, being more vulnerable, creating connection, asking for support. I mean, I think these Gen X mamas and business owners often are thinking, well, I can’t necessarily reveal that this is a challenge for me or a struggle, but are finding they can be graceful with themselves while they share what’s a little bit  

Speaker 1 (10:56): 

Difficult. Well, and I love that you tease this out because one thing that was kind of coming to mind to me is sometimes when I hear grace, and I’m not even a perfectionist, but just from working with so many, I think sometimes they mistake grace is this image, it’s this person who’s just gracefully going through life who is perfect, doesn’t have bad days. And when you talked about one of the biggest ways to express grace is to share with other people what’s really going on with you that, tell me more about that. How is that actually a representation of someone who is practicing grace?  

Speaker 2 (11:36): 

Okay, so an example from my own life is that I was convinced some rule I wrote for myself that I was just going to skip the whole menopause thing. It wasn’t happening to me,  

Speaker 1 (11:51): 

Katie’s immune. I  

Speaker 2 (11:53): 

Just decided it’s not happening. Sure enough, it’s been happening. It’s been happening for a long time, and I have been mad at my changing body. I have been mad at my frozen shoulder that is brought on by menopause. I have been mad about the hours that I lay awake at night and having grace with myself is actually accepting that it’s happening, naming it, actually talking about it even with you right now  

Speaker 1 (12:32): 

Or  

Speaker 2 (12:32): 

With good friends on a walk and just saying, this is my experience. This is what I’m going through right now. I wish I weren’t. But being mad about it or keeping it a secret or just bottling it up inside is actually, it was way more poisonous for me than to just let it out, admit the experience that I’m having, admit where I am in my life, admit my age, all these things that we’re afraid to do, and the camaraderie, the connection. And I would actually go as far as to say the healing that I’ve experienced is unbelievable because of that.  

Speaker 1 (13:15): 

I think that, I mean, just as we’re talking about menopause and stuff, so many of my women are in it. Most of my clients are about 40 and over. We have younger people in our membership, but as I age, so does the membership. That’s what I’ve noticed.  

Speaker 2 (13:31): 

Surprise, surprise.  

Speaker 1 (13:32): 

Yes, exactly. And the talking about it and stuff, because what I loved that you’re saying that I think sometimes, especially in weight loss and when we’re talking about emotional stuff is we’re so afraid to feel bad about things. We’re so afraid to admit we’re struggling and it’s hard and stuff as if that’s going to make it a lot worse. And what I have found is completely the opposite. When you find people that you can share your experience with, and there’s a difference between bitching, blaming and moaning and talking, working through and being there for yourself and letting other people’s be there for you. To me, that’s graceful. That is saying, because I’m with you, I don’t have the night sweats, but my sleep is more interrupted than it ever has been before. The worst thing that’s happened is my body’s just changing fast  

Speaker 2 (14:31): 

Completely. I’m  

Speaker 1 (14:32): 

Like, where the hell is all of this crepey skin? It was like I spent my overweight years after I lost weight dealing with loose skin, and I’m like, now this crepey skin, well, that’s really looking good.  

Speaker 2 (14:46): 

Oh, it’s everything. It’s hair texture. It’s the way your skin feels. I mean, it’s just extra hair. Yep. Every day I’m like, Ooh, this is another great gift of menopause.  

Speaker 1 (15:00): 

Yes. I think the more we talk about it and when women like us are talking about it and saying, no, it is not easy for us, but there is a way to, I was actually on another podcast and this is very similar, and we were talking about her Gen X women with their changing body were afraid of they’ll never feel sexy again. How the hell do you feel sexy at this age? And I’ll tell you how I answered it and you tell me what you would say, but my big answer was I had to start number one, looking at what am I defining as sexy at this age? And I found that a lot of my definition was outdated. It was like, girl, your twenties and thirties are done. We’re not going back to that level of sexy ever again. This body can’t do that anymore, number one.  

Speaker 1 (16:00): 

So letting go of some of those rules, you were talking about these rules that we all live under. Then the second one was, I’m really not going to ever look at my body ever again and legit feel like it’s actually sexy just because of the deep seated standards that just live and most people. But I told her, I said, I tell you what does feel sexy? I know that I have more sex with my husband than the average woman in her fifties. Not because I’m sitting around a raging hormone, but I’ve done a lot of work on this is how we connect. Even though the experience is very different for me, I don’t want to lose that emotional connection just because I don’t feel like it all the time. And he and I have had a lot of honest conversations about, Hey, I’m going to need you to do these things. Takes me a lot longer to warm up now than it ever has, but I feel sexy because I’m willing to do all that. I’m just like, now this makes me a sexy 50-year-old.  

Speaker 2 (17:07): 

Yes. Oh my gosh, I love this. I love this.  

Speaker 1 (17:12): 

So what are your thoughts?  

Speaker 2 (17:14): 

Well, I mean not too dissimilar from yours. I mean, I find that when I’m so obsessed with everything I didn’t get done or I didn’t do well or the milestones I didn’t reach or what went wrong or how I could have done it better, it’s the uns sexiest thing in the world versus tried this, fucked it up, tried this, didn’t work, tried this, going to go back at it again tomorrow, or here’s what I’m learning, here’s what I’m experimenting with, what’s really happening to me. Here’s how I’m talking to myself, treating myself. I mean, if I can treat myself well, you bet my husband is treating me 10 times better than that. But if I’m treating myself terribly, he doesn’t want to be anywhere near me probably because it’s just the energy is so icky. And so being kinder more thoughtful, saying nicer things about myself, boosting myself up is all a way that helps me feel really good about myself at 55, even though every day I feel like my body is betraying me, this body that I’ve known and loved for a long time, it just doesn’t feel like the body that I am so familiar with.  

Speaker 2 (18:39): 

I guess for me right now, I’m less fixated on my physicalness and more fixated on my presence and my words and my listening and my connection. That to me is what feels really sexy right now.  

Speaker 1 (18:54): 

I am in the middle for everybody who’s listening. If you become a member of nobody’s weight loss, we have these events every year, and our next big one is in May, and it’s the body image camp. Oh, cool. And one of the things that I’ve been learning is, and it’s just what you said, it’s like there is your body esteem and this is just the collection of thoughts you have about your physical appearance, your actual body and whatnot. Then there’s our self-esteem, and what we as women do is we pull them together. It’s like if my body is betraying me or my body is getting older and not looking good, that means I am. And it’s like the pulling that apart and being able to, it’s like for all of us, our body is going to change in ways that we’re not going to be thrilled with for a while until we get used to it. All the things we’re in the natural part of life where things just start shutting down. Our goal is to stay as healthy as you can to prevent as much shutting down as you can, but that’s the life experience. Every single person goes through it. But when we can pull it apart from, but that’s not who I am. I think that’s so important to the Gen X generation because we have, of all the generations, we probably feel like our body is who we are, almost more than any of them. I  

Speaker 2 (20:19): 

Think so. I think so. My daughter doesn’t feel this way.  

Speaker 1 (20:23): 

Yeah, my niece doesn’t feel this way. My niece is 22. And I mean, it’s not to say the younger generations don’t have their shit, but I feel like we were the last, I was looking at something the other day, our generation grew up with heroin chic. We were the ones that were, you looked good if you looked like you did heroin on the regular basis.  

Speaker 2 (20:45): 

Yeah, exactly. I’ll never forget those images in the nineties. Absolutely. Yeah.  

Speaker 1 (20:52): 

So let’s go back to one of the things I just want to make sure we cover that is so important, which is the difference between grace under pressure, which is a very common statement, and then your thoughts of what we want to be doing is actually practicing grace over pressure. Can you just explain to us what you mean by all that?  

Speaker 2 (21:13): 

Yeah, so I think we revere people that are able to be graceful under pressure. It’s like a quality that is admirable that actually when I was doing some research for our talk today, it comes up in a lot of hiring questions. And when you’re looking for an ideal candidate, I want to find someone that can be have grace under pressure. That’s something to subscribe to. And it got me thinking, what would it actually be like to create grace over pressure? Because yeah, there’s pressure everywhere in the world and also so much pressure is created with our minds,  

Speaker 1 (21:59): 

Oh gosh, yeah. These  

Speaker 2 (22:00): 

Ridiculous rules, impossible standards, the being perfect, all the things we’ve been talking about, that pressure we create and then we are then going to tell ourselves we need to be graceful under all of that crap. Bullshit created, yeah, bullshit in our minds. I’m creating it now. I’m going to tell myself to be graceful under it. Let’s not do it that way. Instead of creating the pressure, why not create the grace first as a way of coping, showing up being in the world when there is the external pressure that we can’t control. So I almost love thinking of it as this healing balm that we’re just going to carry around with us into the world and when stuff happens, as it will always and never stop, we have a way of being that is kinder, more compassionate, just more accepting. Maybe we take a breath, maybe our first thought isn’t, what did I do wrong? Or how am I in trouble? Or how did I screw this up? It’s like, let me get some more information here. What are my choices? How do I want to approach this? So I feel like it just gives us so many more options, so much more agency.  

Speaker 1 (23:29): 

So give me an example. So of grace over pressure. Take something that a lot of women feel the pressure to lose weight, and I’m just going to tell you, I literally coached someone this weekend. She’s been in my program four years, and she is not lost weight, but she came and she said the first year was really me just being nicer to myself. She said, I didn’t realize until I joined your program that I was a jerk to me.  

Speaker 2 (24:04): 

Oh god.  

Speaker 1 (24:05): 

And then she said the second year was really figuring out how not to binge eat anymore. It was like the first year she had to just really have grace with herself. The second year it was, she really worked on her binge eating. She’s no longer binge eating. And then the third year, she said this last year, it was really just about being proud of myself. She said, I finished. She was like, I finished year three and I feel like a different person, but I’ve not lost weight. And I was like, why are we talking about this? I could just sense that she felt like she had to lose weight, but I also could sense she didn’t want to lose weight and she was looking for permission not to.  

Speaker 2 (24:52): 

Oh my God,  

Speaker 1 (24:53): 

I think you  

Speaker 2 (24:54): 

Described it perfectly.  

Speaker 1 (24:55): 

Yeah. I just told her, I was like, I think you are literally telling us that you’ve achieved what most of us want, which is I don’t binge. I like myself. I know how to talk to myself. I’ve stopped beating myself up all the time, and now I don’t even know if I want to lose weight because she likes herself so much. And I said, you know, don’t have to. I said, if now if you want to lose weight, find a new reason, but if you have literally no reason, then you don’t need to. So for you, if someone is sitting there and it’s like, I feel like I have all this pressure to lose weight, where would you tell them to start to have grace over that pressure versus being like, well, I need to lose weight, so I just need to somehow figure out how to be a champ all the way through  

Speaker 2 (25:50): 

And act like everything’s fine while I’m doing it. I signed up for this program and I told everyone I was going to lose weight. So here I am smiling, acting graceful while I’m treating myself terribly.  

Speaker 1 (26:03): 

Exactly.  

Speaker 2 (26:04): 

That sounds awful. So I mean, it sounds like what this client of yours did is exactly the steps in terms of dismantling maybe the rules that she had for herself and really questioning the way she was talking to herself and all the things that she had been saying, actually sounds like she burned her relationship with herself to the ground and was willing to rebuild something brand new for who she is today. Because I think a lot of us drag along these relationships with ourselves from our twenties and our thirties and our forties, and it’s like, actually, who am I now and how do I want to relate to myself now? So just starting there. I do a lot of work with clients just on what are your values? What matters to you in the world? And even are you living into your values? Are you representing your values or are you turning your back on them constantly because of whatever this way is, these rules, this method that you’re going to live your life by. So it’s digging into that and it is looking for all of the opportunities to reframe a relationship with yourself. Also maybe reset expectations. I love that you said with this example, she taught herself to stop binging. It was like step one instead of I’ve got to do it all. She really saw smaller steps and did those in what sounds like a really thoughtful kind way versus at her own expense.  

Speaker 1 (27:52): 

Well, and I love that she gave herself plenty of time to do it. I think sometimes us women, once we get a goal in mind, especially when it comes to weight loss, so in a rush to get it done, I got to get it done right now. And it’s only because we don’t have grace with ourselves at all. We think it’s very common to think, I thought this for a long time that if I just lost weight, I would be less hard on myself because the predominant conversation in the room when I was overweight was all about my weight. So it makes a lot of sense that, well, if I take the weight away now I’m going to take away all the judgment around my body and I’m going to take away all the judgment around being overweight and being fat and not fitting in and all this other stuff. And it does take all that away. I will say, when you lose weight, I’m not going to shit anybody. A lot of that language goes away, but it gets repopulated with language you didn’t even know was there because you were so busy just trying to lose weight and not work on the relationship with yourself. Yes. When I lost weight, I was very lucky to change a lot of my conversations, but I still went through a phase of paranoid, I’d gained my weight back.  

Speaker 2 (29:07): 

Oh yeah,  

Speaker 1 (29:09): 

I didn’t do enough talking to myself all the way down of, you’re successful, this is your life. I would tell myself, I’m doing good. Let’s just hope I keep doing that. And I did a lot of that throughout. And then when I got to the end, all I had done is teach myself to hope that I could keep it off. I didn’t teach myself to believe that I could keep it  

Speaker 2 (29:36): 

Off. Yes, yes, yes. And it sounds as you’re saying it, it’s like I just keep seeing you arrive at these temporary landing places and it’s like maybe I’ll stay here. I don’t know. I’m not really in charge of it. We’ll see.  

Speaker 1 (29:51): 

Versus Yeah, and that feels so unsafe.  

Speaker 2 (29:54): 

So unsafe. And that’s where I think we put the pressure back on ourselves. It’s like, well, pressure got me to this place, so now I’m going to apply more pressure and then I’ve got to make sure everything’s okay while I just carry around this burden of pressure. It’s like, oh, would we believe faster if we had more grace for ourselves?  

Speaker 1 (30:17): 

I think think everybody would lose weight faster. I think that they would believe faster. They would just feel better as they lose weight. I don’t think enough women realize that we have been taught to lose weight by doubting ourselves. We’ve been taught to lose weight by talking down to ourselves. We are losing weight, applying strict pressure, and I just want all of you to hear this. If applying pressure to yourself constantly to be good, do it right, all of those things, that means in order to keep it off, your brain’s going to be like, Hey, we can’t keep it off without pressure, so now I’ve got to find another way to figure out how you could potentially fuck up or what’s wrong with you. I’m going to keep needing to needle you to be able to keep this thing going. And so we just are like, alright, now I don’t beat myself up over my body now I beat myself up over at any moment you could fuck up. Danger is just waiting everywhere you look. No way to live y’all. No way to live.  

Speaker 2 (31:23): 

Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah. I just want to go around everywhere and pop those pressure, just release the pressure valve or pop it or something and just like, oh God, if we could just get rid of all of that self-created, manufactured pressure, but it really is. It’s in the water we drink and the air we breathe that way of like, okay, this is how I go get things that I’m supposed to get is by applying pressure and being really, really tough on myself. I was talking to a client yesterday who was so upset with herself for feeling so much shame, and it was just we had the most beautiful conversation about when did you write the rule that shame just wasn’t part of your experience because her whole relationship with shame was just like, this cannot be happening. I cannot be having this experience. It’s like, who said that? Why? And then as soon as it was like, oh, okay, I made that up somewhere along the lines, I guess it’s okay. That shame’s here now and again, it was like the pressure, just the pressure left and then Grace entered that space for her.  

Speaker 1 (32:45): 

I think Grace too is also a lot of just understanding and normalizing why we think the way we do, why we feel the way we do. I also have a lot of clients that they’re afraid of shame. They think that if they feel shame, that’s going to prevent them from being able to lose weight to be able to figure things out. And I’m like, no, I always feel like feelings. I read this in a book a long time ago and I wish I could remember which one it was the hate that I never can credit this offer, but feelings are like indicator lights on your dashboard. They’re just signaling to you, Hey, I’m going to need you to pay attention to this. So to me, shame is such a good indicator of if I’m ashamed of something, it’s like my internal dashboard coming on. It may sound like an asshole, but it’s kindly actually trying to tell me you are doing something that you don’t like about yourself, and we want to start figuring out that because I wouldn’t make you feel ashamed if I didn’t care enough about you to say, I don’t think you’re living in accordance to your goals, your values or these things.  

Speaker 1 (34:01): 

All right. Tell us all the things around what we can do to find information about you, look you up, all the things.  

Speaker 2 (34:11): 

Yeah. Well, you can find me@katiepulsfordcoaching.com, and I’m Katie Fer on Instagram and Facebook and LinkedIn, and I’m doing private coaching and group coaching and just having lots of amazing conversations with people and figuring out how to serve and show up and help people with grace and breaking rules and being more rebellious.  

Speaker 1 (34:43): 

Do you have a group program right now?  

Speaker 2 (34:45): 

I do, yeah.  

Speaker 1 (34:46): 

Can you just tell me a little bit about it?  

Speaker 2 (34:48): 

Yeah, so it’s called the Alignment Sessions and it’s a really intimate group. I love a small group, no more than eight people, and it’s group coaching, but it’s really an opportunity to check in and really kind of question value systems, pre-written rules, way of living your life and just decide where you are or aren’t in alignment and talk about it. And I coach, but I also give some feedback. I do a little consulting and maneuvering things around if that’s what the client needs, but we have these rich conversations. Find all of these places that we are sneakily living out of integrity, living out of alignment, not being graceful enough, not being compassionate enough. And so that’s the work. Would  

Speaker 1 (35:50): 

You say somebody who feels like they’re also just kind of living on an autopilot that they don’t like would be a good fit?  

Speaker 2 (35:57): 

Oh, for sure, for sure.  

Speaker 1 (36:00): 

I think a lot of my listeners, especially once they cross about 50, they wake up and they’re living a life that they thought that was going to make them happy. And then when they wake up, they’re just kind of tired and they realize, I went to school because that’s what my parents thought I should do, and I got the job that I thought was going to be the one. And you may or may not have married your dream person and had the kids and stuff, but you just, they’re kind of realizing, I’m just groundhog Day every day, but something’s now bugging you about it. It’s like whereas before you could do it, but now as I think a lot of them are empty nesters and once them kids are gone, it’s like auto call is not good enough anymore.  

Speaker 2 (36:43): 

Yes, yes, yes. Or all the things that you delighted in doing are now not there, maybe just gone. The greatest joy was yes, to your point, parenting and taking care of everything, and that role has evaporated and it’s just leaving you with more time and an opportunity to question what you really want. I also just know, I think you probably feel the same way. We just change so much. I mean, our bodies are changing. We’ve talked about that, but what we want to do with our time I think is drastically changing too. How we want to contribute, how we want to show up our legacy. I’m thinking about that for the first time in my life and it’s like it’s really influencing some of my decisions. And so yes, women our age are questioning a lot of things, and so it’s a good place to come work that out.  

Speaker 1 (37:38): 

As I was going to say, for all of you, I can’t recommend having coaches through this stage of life more than anything because a lot of times it’s like you feel like you want more or you feel like this is either no longer good enough or this is actually really good, but I can’t be happy in it. Having a coach walk you through stuff like that will quickly get you to feeling better and really living the life you want versus you trying to just slog it out all by yourself. All right. Well my friend, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today, and we will put links to everything in our show notes so people can find you and stuff. And just again, thank you for sharing this with us. It was really good.  

Speaker 2 (38:26): 

Oh, thank you so much. I love spending time with you. Keep doing all the amazing work you’re doing. Thank you, Corinne. I.