Corinne:

All right, everybody. Welcome back. So we have some special today. I don’t know how many people we’ve actually interviewed on the podcast, it’s very few, maybe one or two people in the entire 300 episodes, but we actually have somebody who’s one of my favorites. We have Jon Acuff today. So if you are a no BS woman, you absolutely know who he is. I have probably pimped the book Finish, seriously, as if I wrote the book myself.

Jon Acuff:

I love that. You’re saying the things… These are my favorite sentences I’ve heard today.

Corinne:

I am sure they are, but it’s been such an impactful book for our members. Literally, I have made every single perfectionist read it. My podcast listeners know that, if somebody ever says, “What book would Corinne ever recommend?” Finish is always in the top three. I mean, it’s like-

Jon Acuff:

Oh, wow.

Corinne:

… we did this one. So, I mean, it really is a big deal for us. And you’re also from Nashville, which makes you even more special to us.

Jon Acuff:

I think so.

Corinne:

But today we’re going to talk about Soundtracks, which is the new one. And if you’ve been listening to me in the last couple of weeks, you’ve already heard me telling you that you need to read the book. It’s really good for you. It’s going with everything that we’re studying right now inside of No BS. So whether you’re a podcast listener or you are a No BS Woman, we’re kind of hooked up on the idea, right now, of self-sabotage. And so, as I was reading this book, it’s written from the idea of the overthinking, but everything I’m just like, yeah. That’s why we self-sabotage. That right there. These soundtracks, this is our problem. When we solve for these, we solve so much.

Corinne:

So, the first question is, I just want to know… This actually came from Kathy. I was asking her before this interview, was like, “What would you ask?” And she was like, “I would just like to know why he picked this topic.” Why is this important to you?

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. I think that’s a great question. Whenever I write a book, whenever I do a podcast, whenever I launch a new product, I look for three things. One, a personal connection, am I personally connected to this? Am I willing to spend years exploring it, researching it, talking about it? The second thing is, I look for a need. I go, do people really need it? Is it going to help people? And the third thing I do is, I look in the marketplace, and say, is there a spot for me? Or is this thing already overserved? So the personal connection, in 2008, I started to change the way I worked on my thinking. I started to realize that I get to choose the thoughts I have. And when you choose your thoughts, new thoughts turn into new actions, new actions turn into new results.

Jon Acuff:

So I kind of discovered the power of thinking, and it changed my entire life. It’s why I ended up in Nashville. It’s how I’ve hit The New York Times Best Sellers List. And so then I started to go, but do people need that information? So, this PhD researcher, Mike Peasley, who’s at MTSU right down the road, he and I asked over 10,000 people, if they struggle with overthinking, and 99.5% of people said, “Yes,” and that was before crazy 2020. Now everyone’s overthinking, and so I saw the need. And then I went into the marketplace and I realized there’s a lot of books about overthinking, but they say, “Stop it. Stop it. Stop it. Stop overthinking.” And my opinion was, I’m really good at thinking, why would I ever turn off that machine? What if I just fed it with good soundtracks? Good thoughts that push me forward versus pull me back.

Jon Acuff:

So if you’re trying to get in shape, and you’ve told yourself forever, you’ll never be able to do it, never be able to do it. What if you could have good soundtracks that actually… You have this thinking machine, but you just have fed it with the wrong things. What could you do if you changed the way you’re thinking? Once I saw those three kind of circles overlap, I said, “I have to write this book.” And that’s kind of what kicked off the process.

Corinne:

Well, I love that you said that. One of the things that we teach, and this is actually in your book, I think it’s on page 63. You’re talking about something on that page that all of my women’s struggle with, which is they want to turn it off. They find a soundtrack, and they think, well, I found it, and I came up with a brand new thought. We call it old shitty versus new hotness.

Jon Acuff:

Oh, I love it. I love it.

Corinne:

Your soundtracks are… That’s our two like playlists. You either got an old shitty playlist, or you got a new hotness thought that you’re going to use.

Jon Acuff:

I love it.

Corinne:

Well, the most frustrating thing I’m ever coaching them on is that, that soundtrack, essentially, of this needs to stop, in order for my life to change. This needs to stop, in order for me to feel better. Can you just talk a little bit about what he… I forget the name of the guy that-

Jon Acuff:

David Thomas. David Thomas.

Corinne:

Yes. Why you don’t want to do that.

Jon Acuff:

That was for me… That idea is worth the whole price of the book, in my opinion. And David and I were having coffee, we were at First Watch in Brentwood and he said, “Jon, the problem is people want negative thoughts or stress or whatever, self-sabotage, a broken soundtrack, they want to find a switch that they switch off one time, and they never hear it again.” And he said, “But it’s not a switch. It’s a dial.” So a switch mentality is a perfectionistic mentality. As if you could do one thing that forever changed everything, and then what happens is, you try yoga for a week and you feel a little better and you go, “Okay, yoga was a switch.” And then guess what? Like week two, week three, some of that stress comes back. You feel like a failure, because the switch didn’t work, and you go look for another switch, another switch, another switch.

Jon Acuff:

A dial approach says, “When life gets loud, when the dial gets turned up to nine or 10, I have some things I can do to turn the dial down.” That it’s up to 10, that’s not failure. That’s not a massive problem. That’s not because I’m broken it’s, yeah, life sometimes turns the dial up and we get to go, Whoa, I recognize that. How do I turn that dial back? And I think the idea of self-sabotage is so fascinating to me. A woman asked me other day, she said, “Jon, how do I get over imposter syndrome? How do I get over it?” And I said, “Well, I think it’s a broken soundtrack. The word over is a perfectionistic word, as if you climbed over a wall and you’re done.” I said, “Trade that word for through, how do I go through imposter syndrome? Trade over for through.” Because I’ve written seven books, some have hit The New York Times Best Sellers List, I still feel some days, like I’m not a real writer.

Jon Acuff:

And I think that if you said to a mom, “Hey, there’s going to be days where you don’t feel like the best mom or you don’t feel like the best shape or whatever, but you go through it, you still go through it.”

Jon Acuff:

And then I would couple that with another soundtrack, one that I use in my own life is, fear gets a voice, not a vote. It has a voice, but it doesn’t get a vote. I think sometimes we tell people, you can be fearless. There’s a way to be fearless. They look for a switch. And I think the true thing is, every time you do something new, you try something you’ve never done, you grow something to a new level, there’s some degree of fear there, because it’s new, you’ve never tried it before. But it’s there and it has a voice, but it doesn’t get a vote. It doesn’t get to sit at the head of the table and say, “You don’t get to do that. You don’t get to be the kind of woman that builds a business.” Fear doesn’t get to sit at the table and tell me that. I see its voice, I hear its voice, but it doesn’t get a vote. And so I think if we can look at that and have that type of mentality, everything is so much more fun.

Jon Acuff:

And the other thing I would say, I guarantee there’s people watching this or listening to this that they want the result to be faster than it really is. And you sit down with them and you go, “Okay. Hey…” They’ll say, “This isn’t working. No BS isn’t working for me.” You go, “Well, how long have you been doing it?” And they’ll say, “10 days.” And you’ll say, “Well, how long did it take you to gain the weight?” They’ll say, “10 years.” And the soundtrack I give them there is, don’t give the problem a year, and the solution a week. Don’t give the problem a year, and the solution a week. It’s so unkind to go, “I gave myself 10 years to gain the weight, and only 10 days to lose it.” What if you could be generous to yourself, generous to the solution, and go, “Okay. I have a desire for the results to be faster. We all want faster results. But I also know I need to give it time. I need to give it space, so that I keep going, and don’t give up.”

Corinne:

I think that’s so important. I mean, the whole… I loved the concept of the through. I’m in the course that you offered along with the book, and-

Jon Acuff:

Oh, awesome.

Corinne:

I’m a course junkie.

Jon Acuff:

Me too. Me too.

Corinne:

I will take every course, just about, that’s pitched to me.

Jon Acuff:

The next one is on perfectionism. We’re doing one in June, on perfectionism, because so many people have raised their hand and said, “Hey, what about this?” And so I just love creating that content. It’s just really fun. I’m so glad you’re in it.

Corinne:

Well, the whole through thing I thought was so enlightening, because I think that my… This is what my people tell me all the time, they really think that when old soundtracks come back or when they’re thinking… They’ll have some success, and then they’ll start hearing the old stuff, they think something’s going wrong in those moments. And it’s like, no, this is… You said it somewhere in the book, this is probably not ever going to stop.

Jon Acuff:

Again, I tell people I still have imposter syndrome about being a writer as an encouragement, because if your thought was, well, once I have a second book, then I won’t have it. And I was like, “Well, got the second, but still have it.” Once hit the New York times list, then I will have it. Did that, still have it? So now that I’m more comfortable going, “Oh, I see that. I see it’s back. Here’s what I’m going to do to turn the dial down.” Yeah. If your whole thing is, okay, it has to be perfect. And the first sign that it’s not, it means the whole thing’s broken, you end up quitting and going from whether it’s diet to diet or exercise to exercise, because you think, okay, I had it perfect, and then these old thoughts came back. These old behaviors came back. These old challenges came back. It must be the wrong thing. I’ll go try to find another thing.

Jon Acuff:

And I think it’s much more helpful to go, “Oh, I’m going through that. And I’m going to keep going through it.” And it might be a tenacious soundtrack that’s been with you for years and you’ve got to figure out, okay, I recognize it. I know it pops up in these certain situations, but when it does, here’s what I’m going to listen to instead. I’m not going to see it and feel like a failure. The arrival of fear, isn’t failure. The arrival of fear is an invitation to bravery. And so, if you look at it and go, “I feel afraid and I must be a failure,” then you get in this negative loop. But if you look at it and go, “Oh, I’m afraid, it must mean there’s something going on. How do I be brave in this moment?” That changes everything.

Corinne:

This is something else that you were talking about there that I thought was super important. It was the key words to know when you’re starting to get into these really shitty loops, like never and stuff. Can you talk about… I think we all know when we’re in the loop, but if we knew the things that we’re saying that are like, “All right, now, I, for sure… I don’t have to…” A lot of times I think my clients know they’re in the loop after they feel terrible or they’ve already ate their face off.

Jon Acuff:

It’s been a week later and they go, “Huh, wait a second.” And then they put the pieces together and do kind of a post-mortem and go, “Oh, that’s right. By day two, I should have recognized I was in some sort of situation that wasn’t going to end well.”

Corinne:

Yeah. Can you go over those key phrases? And why they’re a problem? And what to do about those?

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. So, my big thing is broken soundtracks always travel in absolutes, so never, always, forever. So, if you find yourself going, “I’ll never lose this weight.” The arrival of the word never should be a flare that goes, “Wait a second. I know what that word is. That’s not a word that’s going to give me what I need to get to where I’m going,” or always, “I always fail every go goal. I’ll always do this.” Words that kind of are trying to predict the future, they don’t really control. And I would say the same thing, like it’s kind of once in a lifetime thinking too. I’ll meet young people, 24 year olds, who will go, “This is a once in a lifetime opportunity.” And I’ll go, “I hope not, because you’re going to work for 40 more years. So, if you don’t get this one, does that mean the next four decades are just miserable.”

Jon Acuff:

And so sometimes I think we get into this place of always, forever, nobody. Everyone else has an easier time with their weight than me. That is not true. That’s not true. So anytime you hear words that speak in finality, speak in absolute, speak in predicting the future, that’s an indication to you that, wait a second, this is a broken soundtrack that’s starting to play. I want to pause this one as soon as I see it. As soon as I recognize it, and I want to go, “Wait, no, no, no, no, no, no. That’s an indication. This is a broken soundtrack. I’m not going to listen to this one.”

Corinne:

Okay. So, then when that happens, you have these three things that you’re supposed to ask. And I’ve literally told my members this morning, I said, “These three questions are worth the price of the book.”

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. I think they’re sneaky simple, because on the face if it, you’re like, I know those words. They’re not words you’ve never heard, but when you ask them in this way, it really is powerful. So the questions, and I’ll back up for a second. If you want to figure out if you have a broken soundtrack, here’s the easiest way. Write down something you want to do. Write down, I want to lose 10 pounds. I want to be able to do a 5K. I want to start my own business. I want to start a podcast. I want to write a book. Write down a desire, and then listen to the first thing you think. Listen to your reaction, because every reaction is an education. And sit on that for a minute, and then you go, “Okay, I listened to this, I have this desire. I want to be part of the group. I want to join… I want to be a No BS Woman.” Do you hear yourself go, “You don’t get to do that. Other people get to do. It’s selfish for you to take time away from your family to work on yourself.” Anything you hear like that.

Jon Acuff:

So you sit there and then you ask it three questions. You say, is it true? Is this thing I’m telling myself true? Is it helpful? Does it move me forward or hold me back? And is it kind? Is what I’m saying to myself kind? Would I say it to a friend? If I said it to a friend, would they still want to be my friend? And those questions work on every single level. Just the other day, a podcaster… What’s been fun about these podcasts is in the middle of each one, they turn into kind of a real heart conversation. So I’ve done other podcasts with other books where they talk about the content of the book, but it’s from almost like an academic perspective. You can see the shift in the podcast hosts where they go, wait a second. I’m thinking broken soundcheck.

Jon Acuff:

So just the other day, a podcast who told me, “Jon, I have the number one podcast in my category, and I’ve had it from nine months in a row. And my soundtrack has been telling me, you’re just lucky. You’re just lucky. You’re just lucky.” And he said, “Jon, if my friend had worked really hard and built something and it was successful nine months in a row, I would never say to them, ‘You’re just lucky. You’re just lucky.’” And so those three questions, if you’ll ask them consistently, and you need all three. Because here’s the thing, if you say to yourself right now, maybe a broken soundtrack is, I’m not in good shape.

Jon Acuff:

Maybe that’s true. Maybe today, that’s true. But is it helpful? thinking that over and over, does it make you join groups? Does it make you walk around the neighborhood? Does it make you throw away food that’s challenging for you? Whatever it is, it probably doesn’t. And is it kind? The more you say that to yourself, is it kind to yourself? So that’s why there’s three questions, because broken soundtracks are sneaky. They’ll try to sit and go, “No, this is tough love. This is helpful for you.” And if you’ll ask those three, you’ll be able to root out a lot of soundtracks. You’ll be surprised, everyone who tries it will be surprised at how many broken things they’ve been listening to?

Corinne:

Yeah. I was coaching this morning on the Clubhouse. One of our clients that… We do a free public Clubhouse every Friday morning at 7:30, but the vast majority of the No BS Women’s swarm it. And so, one of them, she came on stage, and she was talking about how she is a sugar addict. And I used your three questions, I said, “I guarantee you, is it true? You could go find a study that I’m pretty sure it’s going to prove that you could be a sugar addict and stuff, but it’s not helpful, and it’s not kind to think about it that way.” And I just thought that those three questions, because I’m real big into the thought work, and my clients, that’s all we do. We don’t go out and slay exercise and stuff, we work on our bullshit thinking all the time.

Corinne:

And I thought that those questions were so good and so useful. And it was one of those things where, when you were talking about it in the course and then reading about it in the book, I really wanted the listeners to hear it, because my podcast listeners, in particular, they often have a hard time applying thought work, because they don’t work with me, and they don’t have my course and everything. But I really… I would venture to say that if they would read this book, this will help them move the needle exponentially on their self-talk. I mean, almost every podcast I do is about that. And so, I really recommend them. And there’s a couple of cool things you have in here that… I found your book to be very practical and like applicable, and you could actually do things. So if you were actually going to tell my women, like, “Here’s how I would use the book.” What would you tell them? “Here’s how I would use it, so that you can get all of these changes that you want in your life.” Is there any best way to use it?

Jon Acuff:

Well, I mean, I think I would say, “Start with the chapter that you think is going to help you the most.” So maybe you go, “Okay, it’s really hard for me to even think about a new soundtrack. I don’t even think I have permission.” There’s a lot of people that, if you ask them, what do you desire? What’s a goal? They get really paralyzed, they don’t even know. They’ve told themselves for so long that they don’t get to have those, that it’s challenging. So, if that was your situation-

Corinne:

I think Kathy will agree with you on this one.

Kathy:

[crosstalk 00:17:12].

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. Right. Exactly.

Kathy:

First time she asked me to set goals, I cried.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. Yeah. So I would say in that situation, read the borrow from the best chapter, because it’s about saying you don’t have to sit down with a blank piece of paper and try to come up with new soundtracks. There’s a lot of pressure there. What if you just gave yourself permission to say, “I’m going to listen to what other women are saying. I’m going to listen for things that are encouraging. I’m going to borrow some soundtracks that are going to help me start to build my own. I might remix them down the road. I might change some words that help me, but I’m going to start from that place versus going, ‘I have to now down and come up with some amazing soundtracks.’” That’s way too much pressure.

Jon Acuff:

And so I would say, read the book that way, go, “Okay. Here’s where I feel like I am.” Or the chapter about making a soundtrack stick with a symbol, I think is really practical and really fun. So, if you have a thought right now, maybe, a part of your course, and you would say “I’m a No BS Woman,” and there’s a part of your training that you’re having a hard time making stick, figure out how to tie a symbol to it. So maybe come in and go, “I have a good thought. I recognize a good thought. I’ve been taught to good thought by this group and these women, but I want to make sure it sticks. I want to make sure I repeat it enough that it becomes automatic.” That’s the goal of the book. I want you to retire broken soundtracks, replace them with new ones, and then repeat them so often, they become as automatic as the old ones.

Jon Acuff:

And so maybe you’d say, “I want to focus on the repeat section. I want to do that.” I think people enter into it from what makes the most sense for them. And then, as far as it being practical and actionable, I really wanted a book, because thinking can be this fuzzy, holistic, no… half of motivational content online, if you go, what does that really mean? Means nothing. That’s why I love your approach. You’re like, “No, we’re going to do some stuff and you’re going to see some changes. We’re going to work on some stuff.” It’s not just, “We’re going to light a candle and kind of hope.” There’s none of that. That’s the whole point of No BS. And so for me, that’s why, when you read the book, I try to make it really funny, really honest, but really practical too, so that there are some things you could actually do in your own life.

Corinne:

Yeah, no, I have always said that your writing style is amazing. You take what I would call some of the complicated concepts or can be very complicated, and that we all, also, we have our story about the concepts that they’re really hard for us, or ooh, that’s the scary work or whatever, and you make it so open for someone to be able to do it. I mean, I literally… I do recommend books, but your books are always the ones I always have people start with, because it’s like, you’ll understand it. It’s a good read. Your audible versions are amazing. I mean, guys, he’s just hilarious. I mean-

Jon Acuff:

Oh, thanks for saying that.

Kathy:

That’s what I was going to say. I love listening to you. Not just because there’s a little bit of a local connection. Every now and then you talk about a place in the book, when you’re reading-

Jon Acuff:

Frothy Monkey. You’re like, “I’ve been to Frothy Monkey.”

Kathy:

Yeah, exactly. But you also interject a little bit of yourself in them, which makes it super entertaining. And you have these amazing nuggets, like you said, “The arrival of fear is the invitation to bravery.” And I got goosebumps. I got goosebumps. Tell-

Jon Acuff:

Well, I wrote that one down for me, because… And that’s the thing, I’m a practitioner. I’m in the trenches. The books I enjoy writing are from the trenches, because I want to be in community with people. This isn’t 60 years later, I’m a reflecting on a perfect life, it’s messy. And so for me, I’m always trying to come up with a soundtrack that’ll help me do the next thing. And so, I recognized that I kept getting stuck in these moments where I would feel afraid and I feel bad about feeling afraid. A counselor told me you have feelings about feelings. There’s a lot of people that have, for instance, guilt about anger. They think that when they feel angry, they should be guilty about that, which makes them feel more angry, and it’s just a circle.

Jon Acuff:

Maybe they grew up in a house where anger wasn’t modeled in a healthy way. But so for me, I started to notice, anytime I felt afraid, I would shut down. And so I said, “Well, I’ve got to change that. I’ve got to work on that soundtrack.” And so I actually have 45 different soundtracks that I just collect them, and I’m curious about that. And I’m going… Here’s one the other day that I just thought was brilliant. Brad Montague, who came up with this concept called kid president, this really adorable kid. And they got to go interview Beyonce and Obama, and just amazing, amazing thing. And I said to him, “Well, how do you do the next project? How do you do…” Because there’s a… When you hit a goal, how do you do the next one?

Jon Acuff:

And he said, “Well, I just remember that there’s a difference for me when I create from love versus for love.” He said, “When it’s from love, I share something that I had to get out there, that I had to create. When it’s for love, it’s something I created to get people to love me. And it’s not the same and it’s not sustainable.” So I just wrote that down, and said “From love versus for love is brilliant.” So that’s my hope is that, there’s women in your group that that’s the power of community. They are going to give each other soundtracks, they’re going to lift each other up and go, “Okay, here’s something that worked for me. Here’s a soundtrack that was helpful.” And that’s what I try to be in my own life, so when I bump into fear, I go, “Okay, wait a second. I need to change that.” And then I say, “Okay, can I share this with people in a way that’s helpful for them too, because I’m not the only one who’s afraid?”

Corinne:

I want to repeat what you said, in diet terms, the from love, for love. And I’m going to really think on this, because so many of us who have struggled with our weight, we don’t… I try to flip the script and teach women how to lose weight from love, because we’re always doing it from loath. Almost every diet we go on is because we’re trying to fix ourselves, something’s broken about us. We’re not good enough. And then we beat ourselves up from it, thinking that we’re going to get the love at the end. And I think the whole idea of just even hearing that just from, like when somebody is doing a project, but it’s like, when you’re thinking about losing weight, so many of us are doing it to… if I lose enough weight, then people will love me, then I can love myself. And that is such a broken concept right there. So I love that.

Jon Acuff:

That causes pain, so much pain. I mean, I think, I’m starting to work on the next book, because you’re always kind of collecting ideas. And one of the ideas is about the fuel you use to change your life, because I think sometimes use toxic fuel, which will change it a little bit. It might give you a bump, but long-term, it’s not sustainable. And so that’s an example of a fuel that’s not sustainable. Okay. I put this in the book, I’d never met somebody who said, “I said I had to get my life together, and then I yelled at myself and then I just did.” I’ve never met someone in the other side of, “I shamed myself into long-term success.” It doesn’t work. Shame is not a good fuel. Loathing is not a good fuel, and you don’t enjoy it. So, of course, if you start with loathing, you don’t want to go do more of it.

Jon Acuff:

We want to do more of things that give us joy, that fill us up, that give us life, and the power of loving yourself before you love the way, that’s a superpower. That is a 100% a super power. And that’s where you see heart transformation, before that. I mean, one of the soundtracks, I think I shared this in a group, you might’ve seen it. Somebody, a woman said, “I believe these things in my head. I know logically, but I don’t believe in my heart, yet. What do I do?” And so the soundtrack I gave her was, remember that the head runs, the heart walks. The head, runs the heart walks. Give the heart time to get there on its own pace, because we could logically know I have all the facts, all the things, but our heart hasn’t had the transformation yet.

Jon Acuff:

And so giving yourself the pace to do that versus going, “What’s wrong with me? Why am I so broken?” But yeah, if you try to fix yourself, you see yourself as a broken thing, and it’s this continually broken thing and you’ll never get to a place where you think you’ve arrived, that’s the big lie. There will always be one more pound, one more thing, one more… The goalpost will forever move, that’s the challenge.

Corinne:

And I teach, too, that your brain… It’s just like what you’re teaching, your mind has habit patterns. And so, if your habit is to beat yourself up into submission to do things, to nitpick, to worry, to angst, even if you get the thing you want, then your old brain will now start worrying if it can keep it, worrying how long it will last, beating yourself up… It will look for the smallest of mistakes and blow them out of proportion. That’s why I think it’s so important that people change their mindset when they’re embarking on something, because you don’t… who wants to get their goal and end up there with their shitty self-concept.

Jon Acuff:

And miserable.

Corinne:

That sucks.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. I don’t… Miserably drinking champagne.

Corinne:

Right.

Jon Acuff:

You accomplish the goal, but you’re still miserable, you’re still unhappy. And I actually teach that from a career perspective. There’s two things that you kind of measure when you study leadership principles, it’s satisfaction and performance. So were you satisfied during the goal? How did you feel? Did you perform? And so the argument I make is that every leadership principle needs to raise both of those, because if I help you be really satisfied, but your life doesn’t change. You end up smiling, the last place. You end up failing, but you feel okay. The flip side of that is, if I help you with your performance, you crush your performance, but you’re not satisfied, you end up as every rich, miserable person you’ve ever met.

Jon Acuff:

We’ve all met somebody who’s really successful and really unhappy. And you think, well, those two things shouldn’t go together, but they’ve had this kind of weird plan, where they said, “I’m going to hate what I do and be miserable for 60 years, but then when I retire and go to Florida, it’ll all change.” And just like you saying, “No, you’ve got habits.” You don’t get to practice misery for six decades, and then you get a golf card in [30A 00:27:16] and that changes. You have to change that before then. You have to say, “Okay, how do I make sure of my satisfaction? How do I make sure my performance are in line? Because I don’t want to lose all the weight, but carry…” I wrote down one of the soundtracks about weight that I think sometimes the heaviest thing you have to lose is the thoughts you carry about yourself.

Corinne:

Oh, God, yes.

Jon Acuff:

I think the heaviest thing that you have to lose and you can be in super shape and still hate yourself. And that’s not a fun way to go through life.

Corinne:

Yeah. It happens so often. I have a lot of people that join my program because they’ve already lost their weight and they lost it a different way than what I teach. And they come in, they’re like, “I didn’t… My life is not better. I don’t think better about myself. I’m hard on myself. I’m terrified of food. I feel like at any moment the food shoe is going to drop.” And they don’t want to live like that.

Jon Acuff:

Oh yeah. Yeah. Every bite could be the one that… It’s a house of cards, and if I have that one cookie, I know I’m going to go right back off the wagon, whatever the wagon is. Yeah. I totally get that.

Corinne:

Yeah, you have to lose that mental weight. I mean, for me, I always tell people, “You’ve got to lose your mental weight, so that you can permanently lose your physical weight.”

Jon Acuff:

I love that. That’s a-

Kathy:

And that’s where the new soundtracks come in. Because you’re still telling yourself the same old story, even as you’re losing the weight, then history is going to repeat itself. You’re just going to keep telling the same old story. You have to bring those new soundtracks in so that you know that you can keep the weight off. That fear gets… Whatever it is, fear, doubt, unease, whatever it is, gets a voice, not a vote. All those feelings we don’t want to feel, we eat through, that’s…

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. A 100%. That’s why it’s so fun that we get to connect. That’s why I love what you do. I’ve always been a fan. And to see the growth, just to see the way you serve that audience, it’s such an inspiration to me. It really is.

Corinne:

Well, thank you. I’m very passionate about my women, for sure. And I think that as long as you’re going to write books, I promise you, you’re going to… You’re like our official No BS Woman, author.

Jon Acuff:

I’ll take it. I’ll take it. I’ll wear that mantle. If it comes with a plaque, send that plaque to my house.

Kathy:

I was thinking, too bad he’s a guy, he could coach.

Corinne:

That’s right.

Jon Acuff:

I love that. When’s the last time… We first connected maybe five years ago.

Corinne:

Yeah. It’s been a while. I mean, it was-

Jon Acuff:

Yeah, it’s been a while.

Corinne:

… yeah, three or four years ago, at least.

Jon Acuff:

Well, and I want to say, I will say it publicly here, I want to have you on my podcast. I have a podcast called, All it Takes is a Goal, and I think you would give so much encouragement to my listeners. I’d love to ask you questions about, what you’ve built and how you serve people. That would just be super fun.

Corinne:

Yeah. No, totally, just, let’s do it. I have this passion. I was actually on another podcast right before this one, where I was talking to her about, when I lost my weight, the one thing that I knew was that I had done something that most women couldn’t do, and I wanted to make sure that as many women who would listen to me, I would tell them how to do it, so that they could have it. Same thing has happened in my business. I’ve done something that most women cannot do, which is go from a laptop and a couch to an eight figure business. I’m never going to be a business coach, but what I do, will go on any podcast who will listen to me to help inspire the next woman and make her journey a little bit easier, because every woman should be able to build the business she wants.

Jon Acuff:

I love that. And I’ve seen it firsthand in my audience too. So I think, they would love that. I mean, even just you saying, I was doing a session on Clubhouse. That’s amazing. You said it casually, but that’s amazing. You figure it out, here’s the best way to serve people via this new medium. I love that. Even just hearing that, I was like, “Oh, she’s so good. The stuff you guys do is so good.” Oh, so I love it.

Corinne:

Well, thank you. Is there any way that they can get into your world, get on your list, because I mean, they need to be listened to all things. Tell them your podcast, where they can buy your books, all the things.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah. The book is available anywhere, Amazon, you can get it anywhere. You can read the first chapter for free at soundtracksbook.com, so soundtracks with an S on the end, book.com. The podcast is called, All it Takes is a Goal, and I’m a goal nerd, so I believe that starting is fun, but the future belongs to finishers. And so I love to help people finish the things they start, and so that’s what the podcast is about. And then I’m just Jon Acuff on Instagram or Twitter, and acuff.me is my website.

Corinne:

And his Instagram is hilarious. You have to follow it. Sometimes you post stuff and I’m just laying in bed cracking up. It’s like, you’re a delight in my Instagram feed.

Jon Acuff:

Oh, good, good, because we need more of that. Sometimes social media, you’re like, this is no bueno. Although I’ve been doing some Facebook groups, and I’ve been really surprised in a private Facebook group, how much life change can really happen. And you’ve known that for years. I was a little late to that revelation, but I’ve been really thrilled. And then I’ll make sure that I tell you when we’re doing the perfectionism challenge, because we’re going to do a five day, free challenge about perfectionism. I’m going to-

Corinne:

Yeah. That would be awesome.

Kathy:

Yeah.

Jon Acuff:

… teach for five days, and I think it’ll be a blast.

Kathy:

I need to sign it for that one twice.

Jon Acuff:

Yeah, yeah. You don’t have to do it perfectly. If you try to sign up, perfectly, then I’ll know you should be actually in it. When we sent the survey to see if people over-thought, we had probably, a 100 people say, “I over-thought the survey and couldn’t finish it.” It was like a five question survey. And I thought, if you can’t finish a five question survey, because you’re overthinking it, you’re probably overthinking. That’s probably true.

Kathy:

I did the survey, and I did finish it. So I’m not-

Jon Acuff:

See.

Kathy:

… that bad off.

Jon Acuff:

There you go. I love it. I love it.

Kathy:

Yes.

Corinne:

You’re making progress Hartman. You’re making progress.

Kathy:

That’s right.

Jon Acuff:

There you go.

Corinne:

Well, thank you for being on the podcast. We really appreciate it.

Jon Acuff:

Thanks for having me. I love your audience. And if there’s anything I can do to serve and encourage them, just let me know.

Corinne:

Great. All right guys, that’s it for today. We will see you next week.