February 5, 2021

Episode 201: Anti-Diet Culture, Friendship, and Truth Bombs

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A Conversation with Kara Loewentheil

You’re in for a special treat today!

I’m in the interview seat in my first ever crossover event. This episode will air on both my podcast and my dear friend, Kara’s podcast, Unfuck your Brain.

If you don’t already know Master Life Coach Kara Loewentheil before today, I guarantee you’ll become an instant fan.

Kara is a badass entrepreneur behind The Clutch, “an online feminist coaching community where you can learn how to create true, authentic confidence in your own heart and mind – and bond with other badass women who are doing the same.”

Her wildly successful podcast, Unfuck your Brain, “helps women kick the shit out of self doubt, anxiety, and imposter syndrome.”

Sound familiar, y’all?

Kara and I met 4 years ago during master coach training and bonded over our mission of helping every woman create the exact life she wants.

You’ll learn about how my and Kara’s differences allow us to have a friendship rooted in the evolution of ourselves and others.

Did I mention she’s an anti-weighloss coach?

Between two friends like Kara and I, there are laughs, tears, cussing, and more truth bombs than you can shake a stick at.

In today’s podcast, we’re talking friendship, self-worth, the diet industry, and how being our most authentic selves in business helps us connect with our No BS and The Clutch members.

 

Get the Free Course Here

 

Topics discussed in this episode:

Topic 1: More about my personal weightloss journey, and why I started No BS to help women lose their mental weight first so the physical weight follows. [0:05 – 5:46]

Topic 2: How Kara and I unapologetically teach women to see themselves as success stories, and how it’s possible to overhaul their lives to support their own needs. [5:47 – 12:10]

Topic 3: How Kara and I know firsthand how coaching allows women to embrace vulnerability, accept themselves, and dropkick the shit out of their biggest fears. [12:11 – 27:16]

Topic 4: Plus more talk about being women entrepreneurs, social justice, body positivity, and how online membership communities offer obtainable and affordable solutions for women to thrive. [27:17 – 42:29]

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Kara Loewentheil [0:01 – 42:29]

The Clutch [5:13 – 5:46]

Unfuck your Brain [2:23 – 2:25]

The Life Coach School [4:41 – 5:13]

Transcript

Kara:

All right, my chickens and also Corinne’s chickens. I’m super excited.

Corinne Crabtree:

Mine is the no BS women.

Kara:

Good to know. Hello, chickens and no BS women, maybe Corinne will need to do her own intro, but I am super excited. As you know, I’ve been doing a couple of conversations with my favorite life coaches, friends and colleagues and I’m super excited to talk with Corinne Crabtree, today.

Kara:

Corinne and I are just extremely different people, which is why I love our friendship so much and she is a weight loss coach, and I’m an anti-weight loss coach and we still love each other and I have learned so much from her, so I am super excited to talk to her today. I’m going to let her kind of introduce herself and say who she is and what she does, since a lot of my people are probably not familiar with your work.

Corinne Crabtree:

So, like Kara said I’m Corinne Crabtree and I do coach weight loss, but I coached a no BS approach. It’s a very much “I want to help you lose mental weight” and then we let the physical weight come off as it’s needed. There’s a very big disservice being done in the world I think right now in the diet industry by pumping a lot of rules, a lot of restrictions, a lot of how we should look, how we should eat, and I am just not for all that.

Corinne Crabtree:

And so, I wanted to be someone who just I lost 100 pounds and when I did it, I didn’t do it with all kinds of antics and tricks and stuff. I literally just decided each and every day, I want to make a small change to my life, so that I can feel a little bit better. I was not feeling good physically. I wasn’t feeling good mentally. I battled depression most of my life. And I was at a low place. And it wasn’t really about my body or anything like that. I just knew that if I kept sitting on my couch every day crying and eating, that I wasn’t going to be around much longer because I had already had one bout of suicide when I was 17 and I had attempted to take my life. And I just knew that I was going down a bad path and that I really needed to figure out my stuff. Can you cuss on your podcast?

Kara:

It’s called Unfuck Your Brain, yeah.

Corinne Crabtree:

Oh, yeah. Full shit. I know it. What exactly then I was right. I don’t know that you could cuss that much. I-

Kara:

Like, “Does Kara curse? Will she be offended if I use a curse word?”

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, I know you curse like I realized, but and I was listening to your podcast this morning of all things, so anyway.

Kara:

Yes, as much cursing as you want, just all curse words.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, I just like I knew that if I didn’t take care of my shit that I was just, it was going to go downhill. And so, I just made small changes to my life like I didn’t give up foods and things. I had to take things away from myself, so my approach is super simple. It’s about if I’m hungry, I’m going to eat, if I’m not hungry, I’m going to not eat. If I am eating, I’m going to stop before I’m stuffed, like I just keep it real basic. All foods are fine. I just don’t eat foods that give me diarrhea, that cramp me up, or burn my mouth. Like I just, I remember just eating shit and always feeling terrible in my colon-

Kara:

That burns my mouth. I don’t eat food that burns my mouth.

Corinne Crabtree:

I would like I would eat stuff for the sake of eating it just because it’s going to taste so good and I would be in physical pain. I just put out bullshit eating and that’s how I lost weight. So, anyway, my particular-

Kara:

I think you’ve covered actually two of the three things that I had on my list for what I learned from you just in that intro, but I will go first and I will say that I think the most important thing that I have learned from you is that it really is not about the weight. Right? That that is not… I mean, I think you know when I went through and Corinne and I also did our master coach training together, so we did our master training and so we’ve seen each other like… Corinne is like-

Corinne Crabtree:

A lot.

Kara:

Yeah. Corinne is a juggernaut now. She’s a $12-million business and four years ago, was it five years ago, we were master coach trained together, 2016 and she was crying because our teacher, our mentor was telling her that she had to raise her price from, I shit you not $7, which was what it used to be. It was $7 a month and she was making, what like, $500 a year or something?

Corinne Crabtree:

No, I was making $30,000 a year, but it was costing me $30,000 a year to run to business.

Kara:

Right, she was breaking even because she was charging $7, literally $7, so good. Anyway, so we’ve seen each other’s journeys and I think as a sort of an anti-diet coach going through obviously life coach training through life coach school, which is very weight loss coaching heavy, the only reason that I was able to do that and the reason that I can count weight loss coaches, like among my close friends, even though we have strong disagreements about some stuff is that it’s so clear to me from the way that you coach and teach that the weight is really not the point, right?

Kara:

It’s like yes, that’s what brings people in. It’s just the same way that people come into the clutch thinking like, “Okay, I’m going to be productive, so I can feel good about myself,” right? It’s like coming in trying to fix yourself up for something and then it’s like the bait and switches that we teach you that there wasn’t anything wrong with you in the first place and you don’t have to fix yourself. Right? But that it’s like really not about, it’s not about the weight. And it’s not about, I think one of the things that you don’t do, which I really love is that you don’t sell this vision of like “everybody can look like me or should look like me.” Right? Like there’s one way that everybody should look.

Kara:

And I love that also in your marketing, I feel like in a lot of weight loss marketing, it’s like people will only features let’s say “success stories,” where the person is. Little is a fitness model now. Right? Like all looks a certain way, but if when you look at current social media, a lot of her success stories are some of them are still technically, according to the BMI, probably overweight or obese, right? It’s because it’s not actually about like-

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, we try really hard to focus on, like with our success stories, it’s not just about the weight loss. We always, like we pick a lot of our clients who experience success in other areas. It’s like for some of our clients, it’s like “My relationships got better.” I just stopped a lot of myself loathing around my body. I haven’t lost the weight, but I’ve dropped my mental weight and now, I actually like myself and realize I didn’t have to lose weight to get there. I just needed to really learn that tool.

Corinne Crabtree:

But yeah, we do try to especially, I think one of the success story, I guess, groups that I love featuring the most is my 55 plus women, because I think they’ve grown up in some of the harshest diet culture times. I mean, I know we’ve got social media, but they didn’t even have options back in the day. I mean, it was just all about Weight Watchers and shakes it magazines and it’s just terrible. And they come on and they’re getting off meds, and they’re playing with their grandkids, and they’re, for the first time in their life, wearing shorts or going hiking, [crosstalk 00:07:18].

Kara:

But I just love that they also still have normal person bodies, is part of what I’m saying, right? That’s like that you’re like showing… it’s like some of your afters would be a before in some side, kind of other weight loss marketing, because it’s just like a normal person’s body that is maybe smaller than it once was, but is not like an airbrushed magazine, whatever, right?

Kara:

It’s like and I think that to me is such a like you are so authentic and real and your marketing and your coaching all of it, it’s never like, “Everybody should look a certain way, or everybody should be the same size, and you can be this way, and then your life will be perfect,” right? You’re always like, “It doesn’t fucking matter what you do if you don’t like yourself, we’re going to work on that. And then we’ll see what happens with the rest of it.”

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, and I think that’s the problem in the whole diet industry is that they focus so much on the goal weight and the goal look. They don’t even… I tell my people all the time, “If you don’t fucking like who you are at the end of it, it won’t matter and why go through the trouble of doing all of it, if you’re not going to like who you are.” And I just tell them, “Decide who you want to be and then let’s work towards getting there and let’s check on who you want to be and why you want to be her.” That’s the majority of our work.

Corinne Crabtree:

And I think that’s why our success stories typically end up not regaining their weight. They’d have no reason to because most people regain weight because they realize when they get there, “I didn’t change my attitude about myself. I didn’t change my outlook on life.” If you’re an Eeyore all the way down the scale, you’re not going to weigh 150 pounds and suddenly be a ray of sunshine, so.

Kara:

Corinne, I talk about this all the time and coaching, right? Even though it’s from a slightly different direction of hating yourself during the process, right? It’s like you think as soon as that last circumstance finally changes, the number on the scale changes, I got the ring on my finger, or I make the million dollars. And you think like then I’m going to be happy, everything’s going to change even though your brain, it’s like we think it’s magic, like “I’m going to wake up on that day and I’ll have a totally different brain than I’ve ever had before will just.”

Kara:

I feel like actually, so many of the conversations I’ve been having with the coaches that I’ve talked to in this little series of, it’s all been that, right? It’s been like whether it’s making all the money or getting married or losing the weight or whatever it is, the destination is always going to feel like the journey and weight loss, I think the diet industry sells us the exact opposite, right? Which is like hate yourself, criticize yourself, punish yourself, restrict yourself, and then magically, one day you’ll feel amazing, even though-

Corinne Crabtree:

It’s like the box opens in the rainbow shoots out for you. Exactly.

Kara:

Right. I’m like that’s not how brains work and we know that, but it’s so seductive. We’re sort of sold that over and over.

Corinne Crabtree:

I think that’s why it’s so hard for people to really grasp the concept of, “What do you mean? That if I hit my goal weight, I won’t be happy.” Because they can only picture themselves running around thrilled with themselves. And so, I always tell them, it’s like if today, you’re worried about your food, because you won’t lose weight, then the moment you lose weight, here’s what happens. You will be happy because you’ll have some thoughts about your weight that make you happy, but about four or five days later, that number not changing gets real old, real quick.

Corinne Crabtree:

And then if you’re a worrywart, then guess what? You start now weighing in and you’re like, “Well, I need to worry, is it going to go up? Am I going to be able to keep eating this way?” Worry is a habit. Every thought pattern is a habit and if you don’t learn how to correct them on the way down and start thinking in a way of who you want to be, I promise every single one of you, no number on the scale is going to remove all of that. It might for a moment but only because it’s [crosstalk 00:10:55].

Kara:

That’s what, yeah, 100%. It’s like very temporary, right? People are saying, “That time I did have the blah, blah, blah, I felt amazing.” I’m like, “Yeah, but what happened two weeks later?” Yeah, you got like a temporary high, because your thoughts changed, because your thoughts, here’s your thought, “Oh, my God, now I’m going to be happy forever.” And then you’re happy for that moment while you’re thinking that.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, the best example I give people is like, all right, so being 150 is supposed to change your life and make it all right. If right now you show up at work every day, and you think your boss is a dick and doesn’t like you and gives you extra work, when you weigh 150 pounds, I promise you that when he gives you extra work, you’re going be like, “But you know what? It’s okay today because I weigh 150.” Like, no, you’re still going to be pissed, you’re still going to think he hates, you’re still going to think it’s unfair, you’re still going to have that whole life sitting there and 150 doesn’t fix that shit.

Kara:

Well and so many women who are trying to lose weight also have in their younger days been the weight that they now want to weigh?

Corinne Crabtree:

Yes.

Kara:

And they weren’t happy then?

Corinne Crabtree:

No.

Kara:

Right? It’s like you go-

Corinne Crabtree:

My mom weighed 117 and hated her thighs and then if you saw a picture of my mom all her life, and she was telling me the other day, she’s like, “I want to go back and bitch slap the 17-year-old version of me.”

Kara:

Right. It doesn’t matter, it’s so true.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, here’s what I have, like I’ve really thought about this when we were talking about what we’ve learned from each other. And I may cry, Kara. I’m just telling you, you know I’m the emotional one.

Kara:

[crosstalk 00:12:22] crying.

Corinne Crabtree:

I’ve always just admired how smart you are and that you went to Harvard and I think the biggest thing that I’ve learned from you is over the course of the years, anytime you’ve ever asked me for advice, at first, I couldn’t even handle it because I’ve always thought of myself as uneducated and stupid, and just, I’m a hard worker, so I compensate for being uneducated and stupid. I didn’t go to college, I didn’t do all those things.

Corinne Crabtree:

And I think what I learned from you is I started noticing how hard it was for me to even think that someone who was I thought was super smart to want to talk to me, it really taught me to look within and understand the story I had about myself and to really rewrite what I’m going to think about myself in terms of my intelligence and what is my unique contribution to the world. So, I didn’t mean to get too emotional, but-

Kara:

No, that’s okay. Don’t… your emotion is on my list for my third one anyway, so we’ll get there.

Corinne Crabtree:

I’m just banging your list out for you. But I think that’s one of the big ones for me was just being just in your aura for the last few years and it’s really helped me think about the person I am and appreciate the person I am especially because one of my second thing was, you’re the first person that I’ve ever really been around that I really thought loved herself. And this is why.

Kara:

I’m going to cry now.

Corinne Crabtree:

No, I’m serious and this is why because I’ve watched you get coached over and over and over again and saw you fight for the version of you, you want to be when I watched so many other people fight for the version that they’ve been and like I just, like it’s one of those things that I had felt like I want to be like Kara, I want to be the person who’s arguing for the person I want to be and truly trying to unwind it and truly trying to understand it and you can just tell when you’re in your presence that I mean, I’m sure you have your shit the rest of us, but-

Kara:

Of course, yeah.

Corinne Crabtree:

I can tell fundamentally at the end of the day, you love Kara and not many of us can really say that and I just-

Kara:

And I that’s all due to coaching, right? Like that was not the way I was before. That’s so… I’m having my own feelings over here.

Corinne Crabtree:

It’s too bad we can’t be together and cry, but-

Kara:

I know. I just need to like snuggle and cry, post pandemic. That’s I mean, okay, let me think about this, the first one first, so I think it’s so interesting. It’s like we always, I’m just thinking about how this relates to our previous conversation, which is like we always think whatever thing like we didn’t have or experience makes the difference whereas the person who has or experienced that thing is like, “Dude, let me tell you. I have this thing and it really doesn’t make it right, like doesn’t really, right?” It’s like the people who are single think that just getting married, even though all around them are all the people who are married being like, “Let me tell you, it does not magically make you happy.”

Corinne Crabtree:

Now, I wake up wondering why I can’t be single.

Kara:

Right, right. And like, then right? So, that’s a similar thing, like to me, it never even occurred to me to think about the fact that you didn’t go to college or whatever because having gone to Yale and Harvard, I was like “There’s plenty of stupid people, wherever you go. There’s plenty of smart people wherever you go,” right? But it’s that vice versa, I think if you’re someone who’s always been bigger and you’re taught to think like, “Well, the thin people are always happy.” Even though, you look around you know plenty of thin people who aren’t always happy, right?

Kara:

So, it’s like that human tendency to always think like… I was just talking to… was it Stacey? I went on my podcast and interviewed with Stacey. I was talking about how having grown up around people who had money, I was never under the impression that money was going to solve all the problems or make people happy, right? It’s like having been in that world, I was like, “Yeah, I know. Some of them are still totally miserable” doesn’t even occur to me, but because of my own upbringing or my own whatever, I have different things that I’ve my brain identifies as being like, “If you just had that, if you just did that,” so.

Corinne Crabtree:

I’ve been coaching a lot lately and I’ve been highlighting when we have a lot of people who lose weight and I mean, it’s a good thing. I mean, that’s what I’ve tried to teach them. So, I get a lot of people who lose their weight and they come on the coaching call, and they’re crying and they’re having a hard time accepting it. Like there’s all these, the next level issues start coming up. And I always stop them and say, “I want to ask you a question. Eight months ago, when you joined the version of you who only wanted to be here and knew that this was going to be so awesome, can you even imagine that you would have lost your weight and then be miserable,” or be like… because this is my clients that my process works, but they don’t necessarily always want to buy into that deep thought work stuff.

Kara:

Right, right. They’re like, “I’m just going to take the part where I would learn to stop emotionally eating, but I’m not really going to dig in under that,” yeah.

Corinne Crabtree:

Yes. And so, they’re always like, “You’re right.” And I use them as an example to everyone in my membership and just say, “I want you to see this. If this isn’t an example of what you think is going to happen. Make sure that you are working on that relationship with yourself.” Anybody can lose weight, but not everybody can lose their weight and love themselves at the end.

Kara:

I think it’s so interesting, because actually, as you’re talking, I’m thinking like the way that I coach on the other side of it is like you have to give like there’s a grieving process when you realize that you… and it’s like and it’s funny because we have probably, like we would disagree about how many people can necessarily lose weight and keep it off. But it’s like we’re teaching the same thing in this way where it’s like no matter whether you end up, whether you’re someone who can lose the weight and keep it off or you’re someone for whom long-term permanent weight loss isn’t an option, it doesn’t matter, because both ways you have to grieve the fantasy that being thin will solve all your problems.

Corinne Crabtree:

Yes, I think-

Kara:

Right, like-

Corinne Crabtree:

It’s the same [crosstalk 00:18:22]…

Kara:

That just gave me shivers and like-

Corinne Crabtree:

… as getting out of debt.

K

ara:

Yeah, it’s like you have to-

Corinne Crabtree:

Like I’m going to be happy if I get out of debt.

Kara:

Right. I teach so much about giving up that fantasy and grieving it when you stop dieting, but the truth is, even if you successfully diet, you still have to grieve that fantasy because you get to the end, and it still isn’t true, right? It’s a fantasy, whether you act on it or not, which is so interesting. It’s like the same coaching work, there’s no way out of it, which I also think is so important, because I don’t know if you get this, but I get a lot of my students, of course, this is just the human brain, right? They’re like, “We don’t want to be our own authorities, right? We want someone else to be the authority.”

Kara:

And so, even though I’m like, “Change your circumstance if you want to, I don’t care, just so you’re still going to have to coach yourself,” right? What they hear is like, “I’m never allowed to change my circumstance.” And so, then when I’m coaching on that, I’m always like, “Knock yourself out, get divorced, quit the job, try to lose weight, whatever. All I’m telling you is you’re going to have the same work to do whether you change that circumstance or not.”

Corinne Crabtree:

Yeah. It’s the same thing. It’s yeah, we have the same thing on our side. I think for my people, it’s always getting them to understand, “Let’s identify the problems right now in your life that are going to be there whether or not you lose weight or not, because those problems how you think about them right now, if we start working on all of that, you’re less likely to want to just escape patch your life with food.” And that’s really what I’m trying to teach my people is how do we start looking at our life in a new way and not just in a happy way, but a lot of it is taking authority.

Corinne Crabtree:

I think for my clients and I don’t know if you see this on your side, but my clients, I think their most common theme is they feel like there’s so much not in their control in life. And so, when their life feels out of control or they think so many things are out of control, they eat to not feel so victimized and to feel so weak and to feel so like “I can’t fix things.” And so, we work on that a lot and I just think that I know my thing is all about the weight loss, but it’s I really want to change women’s lives. At the end of the day, I want them to see there’s more to their life than just their weight, I want them to see their life in a new lens, I want them to go after goals that they never thought possible.

Corinne Crabtree:

For some people, learning how to go after something you’re afraid of and using courage and using perseverance and using determination and overcoming self-doubt, for a lot of my girls, weight loss will teach them the skills, but I’m just trying to teach them those skills to believe in themselves and to think something bigger for themselves. Whether they lose the weight or not, it’s up to them, but a lot of the things that I teach them to do is just like, “Hey, tonight. Let’s just try not to eat the ice cream and sit with ourselves, so we can figure out.”

Corinne Crabtree:

I will tell you something that happens that I love that I teach them. If you’re not going to eat tonight and you are just going to give yourself the actual break that you deserve.

Kara:

Wait, we should just pause and say Corinne does not teach like, “Never eat dinner. It’s not like you’re not going to eat.” It’s like-

Corinne Crabtree:

No, no, no, no. I’m talking about-

Kara:

When you’re not going to do your additional emotional.

Corinne Crabtree:

No, no, no, we’ve already had dinner and we’re gearing up Lucifer on Netflix and it’s like Werther’s candies are calling my name or my gallon of ice cream, which is what I used to do all the time. So, here’s what I’m saying. “I’m not going to have that, but the reason why I’m eating is because at the end of the day, I’m so emotionally worn out from the world because I do think there’s things I can’t control and there’s all these things happening and I have my self-worth is in the toilet. I think I’m a terrible mother all day long.” If when you take that break and what you’re really needing is rest, rejuvenation and relaxation. But when you have it, the only thing that goes on in that moment is your to-do list, what you didn’t do for the day, what you should be doing, the dishes you left behind, the ways you failed.

Corinne Crabtree:

If that thinking is there, then that’s why we take that food away, so that we can start working on your self-concept, working on you knowing that no matter what, if you want to take a break, you get to have it. We have to change those relationships, otherwise, you eating denies you the ability to ever think differently for yourself, to ever take pride in the way you showed up all day long. How can you ever take pride if the only thing you do is every night start to beat down on yourself and then go get ice cream? You’ve lost the opportunity. So that, anyway, not to get off on a tangent, but…

Kara:

I love it.

Corinne Crabtree:

… thank you I love them for pointing out that I’m not saying like, “No dinner for anyone.”

Kara:

[crosstalk 00:23:07] since we have very different populations, people may not, I mean, I have some of your people in my program, I’m sure vice versa, but yeah, I just want to be clear, this is not like three-day intermittent fasting, that’s what I teach.

Corinne Crabtree:

No I don’t even teach that stuff.

Kara:

So, here’s the other second thing that I had on my list which kind of relates to this, which is that I have such a tendency to overcomplicate and over-intellectualize and I’m like, “Okay, here’s 37 different ways that this plays out.” And that’s there’s positive sides to that. I see how things connect and I think that really informs my body of work that I’ve created. But you are such a genius at just keeping it simple. I’m like, “Here’s a 47-paragraph thing,” and Corinne’s like, “Don’t put the food in your mouth if you’re not going to enjoy it and you’re not hungry yet.” It’s just like… and of course, that’s-

Corinne Crabtree:

Eat next week.

Kara:

Eat next week, you’re done. And of course it’s not the end because you have to coach people on why that’s difficult, right? Of course, why do we emotionally eat or we’re only talking about eating because you’re a weight loss coach, but everything we’re talking about applies to drinking, smoking, getting high, watching, Netflix, shopping, and all of that stuff like I’ve watched, I know you have in your own life, too like, “Okay, I don’t emotionally eat anymore. Do I need another piece of antique jewelry? Why am I scrolling Instagram?”

Kara:

There’s always something else you can replace it with. The work is ongoing, but you’re just like every time I post some complicated thing, Corinne, in our Slack, Corinne is always like, “Or you could just do this very simple version that would take 10 minutes.” Where I’m like, “Should I tell them blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?” and Corinne’s like, “Or you could just be like do this. You’re so good at keeping it simple in a very hilariously only Corinne would say it that way. What is your favorite thing to say? Don’t eat like an asshole. Just like such and such.

Corinne Crabtree:

[crosstalk 00:24:55].

Kara:

[crosstalk 00:24:55]. It’s just such a gift, right? And it’s so ironic that you know you had this whole thing about like not going to college and not being whatever, but I think like your natural intelligence is so simple and direct and sometimes all that getting an Ivy League education does is teach you to write 12 paragraphs when you really only need one sentence. So, [crosstalk 00:25:12]-

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, I would tell you what I appreciate about you, though, is when I’m going to give you advice because I get a lot of questions from people all the time.

Kara:

It’s like from you, you’re always asking me questions.

Corinne Crabtree:

But this is the thing, it’s like I’m always so happy to help you because I know you’ve thought it through. I never doubt that. I think that’s difficult to teach, especially in business, is people do want that mentor and they do want a guide, and they do want someone to tell them what to do. I was in a mastermind just right before this with a group of people who are about my level all the way down to “I’m trying to get my shit together and I paid my way in.” And the people trying to get their shit together, we’re asking questions where it’s basically like, “Hey, you tell me what to do.”

Corinne Crabtree:

And you are always asking for advice, at the end of the day though, you’re always willing to make your own decision and blend advice, but you always think it through and that’s a skill that’s not easy to teach people. People always think it’s easier to be told what to do. It’s easier, but it’s not scalable, it’s not sustainable. What’s better? Somebody telling me what to do in being successful or me learning what to do and then I can be successful as many times as I want on my own.

Kara:

Yeah. That’s true in coaching, too, right? It’s like everybody, of course, just wants like “Just tell me what to eat or just tell me what to do or just tell me how to negotiate for the raise or just tell me how I should respond to the text message,” or whatever it is and I’m sure it’s frustrating for our clients sometimes, but the reason we don’t tell you that is that’s not growth and you can’t replicate it? It’s just like it’s just telling you what your A line should be, but then you don’t know how to create that yourself.

Corinne Crabtree:

That’s why I don’t give my clients meal plans and they finally are used to not getting them, but it drove them crazy for a long time. And I was just like, “Yeah, but if I’m telling you what to eat, then you’re not listening to your life. You’re not listening to your emotions, your wants, your desires and stuff. You’re listening to my best advice and my best advice probably not going to work in your life.”

Corinne Crabtree:

One of the things I want my people to do is I tell them all the time, “I don’t want you to pay me forever. I want you to be a success, not because you lost weight, but because you can go out into the world for the rest of your life and never have to fucking worry about food again. That it’s just easy for you,” so.

Kara:

Yeah, I think you are all, I mean, having watched your business scale in such a crazy way, I have so much admiration for your kind of work ethic. Every time I talk to Corinne, she’s like, “Okay, well, I just read these three new marketing books,” and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I’m like, “In these three programs and also running my business,” And I’m like, “I wrote almost a whole podcast today,” and was very proud of myself.

Kara:

You are just like really good at simple constraint and such a hard worker, I’m like that, I think. It’s so interesting, so many people who have this, like “You were saying that you had this belief about yourself that’s like, “I’m not smart. I’m just a hard worker.” The truth is one of my best friends went to Yale with me and she has the same belief. That’s like also such a gender-based thing, I think like men are socialized to think that “My brilliance is here. Here’s my brilliance that I barely even researched at all.” And women are taught to think like, “Well, no, I have to work super hard and get ahead that way because I’m not smart enough.” So, it’s such a common belief and I do think there’s so much gender socialization behind it.

Corinne Crabtree:

Yeah. Let me tell you the third thing about you.

Kara:

Yes, do it. I’ll tell you mine.

Corinne Crabtree:

It is your hugging and touching.

Kara:

You mean the fact that I don’t hug and touch so much?

Corinne Crabtree:

No, but you do. Why, do you-

Kara:

I thought you’re the selfie hugging queen with your client and I’m always like-

Corinne Crabtree:

No, no, no. I am, but if you ask my no BS women, they will tell you, I don’t like it. I do it for them, but I always tell them like I skizz-out on the inside with it. I’m just like, “Ugh.” But I do it because I really like it, so I’m just like, “Yeah, yeah, let’s do all the things.” But with you, because I could remember when we were, your don’t hug and touch me as much during mastermind training, but during 100 K when we had-

Kara:

I didn’t know you as much yet, but.

Corinne Crabtree:

Yeah, but we had to spend intimate time together for years, like you would come in, you would just start petting me and stuff and I was like-

Kara:

Am I? I don’t even remember this. Oh, my God. It’s just so funny.

Corinne Crabtree:

Oh, gosh. I felt silly merry eyed. We actually had a conversation toward the end of the week, I think you would come up and pet me so much then you told me, you’re going to miss petting me.

Kara:

I am dying. I don’t remember this at all. It’s totally unconscious. I’m just like, “I love you. Let me pet you.”

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, what it did though is what it did teach me was like…

Kara:

Bring it.

Corinne Crabtree:

… I literally quit bitching to my members about not liking all of that because it really made me appreciate that-

Kara:

You’re like, “They don’t touch me as much as Kara, so [crosstalk 00:30:00].”

Corinne Crabtree:

Yeah. There’s always that part, but it was more of just what it really showed me is that for some people like that, like being able to be close to someone and stuff is comforting or important or it’s a real signal that they do like you and stuff, and rather than me being so caught up and just how I felt about it, it made it easier for me to hug the people and do the things because I started thinking about what their experience was probably more alive, but yeah, you’re-

Kara:

I love that I like cuddled harassed you into accepting physical affection [crosstalk 00:30:33].

Corinne Crabtree:

It was and it was hilarious. I can’t believe you can’t even remember it. [crosstalk 00:30:36] remember about that week.

Kara:

No. That’s like that never even stood out to me. I don’t think of us as being like cuddly friends specifically. I think because I always think of myself, like my experience with the LCS community at large is that I go to those big events we have and then I want to wear a sweater that says, “Don’t touch me,” because all these strangers are coming up to me. They listen to the podcast and so, they’re coming up to me and touching me. Amy Latta, I’m going to make her listen to this episode, who famously hugs with her whole body, including her legs, like hugging me that way once and I had to be like, “You’re like an octopus” because only top part of the body hugging.

Corinne Crabtree:

That’s [crosstalk 00:31:12].

Kara:

So, that’s so funny because my thought about myself in LCS context is that I’m like, “Oh, my God, stranger, stop touching me” because apparently, I just only want to touch you and Rachel, so I guess, I’m just like [crosstalk 00:31:20]-

Corinne Crabtree:

I know. And I was thinking about Rachel and how much she won’t, like she got coached once on her [crosstalk 00:31:25] cuddle.

Kara:

Wanting to cuddle. Yeah. My God.

Corinne Crabtree:

We get coached on the weirdest things, you know?

Kara:

We do get coached on the weirdest things. So, here’s my third for you, which kind of relates to this hilariously, but I think like I definitely still have to coach myself. I mean, of course, about various things in my business, but one of the things that stands out to me about you is just like you already cried on this call like how much you love your clients and your women and how much I feel like you, like that is always my model and trying to, of course, I love mine, too, but you’re running a business, it’s easy to get caught up in why, yeah, like the bullshit or the people who are complaining, or the people who don’t read any of the emails and say they can’t figure out what’s going on, or whatever.

Kara:

It’s easy to get caught up in that customer service nonsense, but I think you operate from such deep and genuine love for your people. Basically anytime Corinne starts talking about her business, if you let her go for more than 10 minutes, she’ll be crying by the end, just [inaudible 00:32:31], but out of love. Because you’re just so sort of emotional about how much you love your women and how proud you are, that I just I feel like you operate from such a deep well of love and as somebody who’s more kind of analytical and operates more from like humor and analysis, I think it’s such a powerful reminder to me to come back to being heart-centered in my business and for my clients.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, I appreciate that. I mean, I do really genuinely love them. And I will say that if I could boil down my success to one thing, it’s literally that purpose behind everything I do. I keep them like… I just want to cry. And I swear to God, I know this sounds so cheesy, but I think about them all the time in good ways. When I’m making business decisions, I hammer it into my team all the time, like “Guys, what is she going to think? Is this going to help her? Is this something she can do? What does she need?” It’s always about that and I think it’s because just for my clients in particular, they are where I started and I remember how I felt then and get off. I can just, for all of those women. It is not about getting their weight off.

Corinne Crabtree:

I remember, your audience hasn’t heard this story, my audience will be like, “One more time really?” But when I had lost my weight and I hadn’t lost all of it, but as I was losing it, I was changing my opinion about myself all the way down the scale. I remember, one time weighing in for a few weeks, and I had been really working hard. I was trying to crack 200. I was doing so many things that scared the shit out of me. I learned how to ride a bike. I’d never rode a bike since I was nine years old and I just knew that I was going to be a cyclist. And so, I would go to the beginner classes by myself.

Corinne Crabtree:

I was just constantly relying on courage when I was always going to be the slowest, the newest, the heaviest, all the things and I was so proud of myself for being the version of me that was willing to chase my dream of being an athlete. My brother was athletic. I didn’t play shit. I always wanted to. I was always told I was too fat and too how to shape to do it and PE teachers would put me on the stands and wouldn’t let me participate. And so it meant a lot to me to learn how to be an adult athlete, more so than the weight loss.

Corinne Crabtree:

And so anyway, I can’t lose weight for a while, because I’m still pursuing my dream and I stalled. My body is like, “I don’t know what else is going on, but we need to hang on to everything we can because she’s doing exponentially more shit that she’s either going to die.” Well, I remember, like a couple of weeks, I was fine. About three or four weeks, I remember one day weighing in and I was so upset. And I remember thinking, “Fuck this, I might as well be eating if the scale is not going to move.” And I literally had a moment where I was like, “No, that is how we used to think. You are doing too many good things for yourself now. You are taking better care of yourself than you ever have before.” That is what we’re excited about.

Corinne Crabtree:

And I remember redirecting myself, this was even before the life coach school and it was those moments that I want my clients to have. I want them to have moments where they know how to believe in themselves, they know how to talk to themselves, and they know how to redirect the moment an old shitty thought comes in that they don’t deserve that. So, the asshole who did not understand jack shit about a woman’s body or how to treat somebody planted in their brain when they were 12 years old, so that is when I cry, because it’s every woman deserves to feel good about herself and not enough people in this world are teaching us how to do it.

Kara:

Yeah. And I think that’s where you and I are 100% on the same page, right? It’s like with whatever the goal is I don’t care if you… I mean, it’s great for you, but do I really care if you run the marathon or get the promotion or whatever, whatever external thing it is or lose the weight? No, of course not. What we both want is for women to learn that.

Kara:

They get to be in charge of what they think about themselves, right? They get to decide how to think about themselves and how to be in the world. And whatever body you’re doing that in, whatever arena you’re trying to conquer, not living by all of that programming that teaches women that they’re not good enough that they don’t deserve pleasure and rest and nourishment of any kind that they are flawed and unworthy and need to sublimate themselves to everything else in their lives just to be good enough to exist. And it’s like that.

Corinne Crabtree:

Right. No. That’s exactly it. And I think that’s why you and I’ve always… I think we get along so well because we are so opposite. It’s like we have the same idea of what we want for women and we come at it from such a different perspective. It’s almost like I’m just obsessed with listening to you talk about it, because it’s so new to me. Even though you’re talking about what I think, but you’re talking about it in such a new way, I’m just like. And I tell people all the time like, “Do you listen to Kara’s podcasts? Dole it and put stuff [crosstalk 00:38:00].”

Kara:

All right. I’m going to add one more thing that I think that I learned. Well, this is just something I learned from you, this is just me, I will say I really admire about you, which is that I think we are both the top-level coaches though. That we’ve got in common.

Corinne Crabtree:

Yeah. We’re not going to sugarcoat shit.

Kara:

Yeah. When we just got a program together, the 100 K, while writing this, I was like, “Oh, my God, what’s happening?” Yeah, we’re both like very low tolerance for bullshit. But like a lot of, like compassionate, tough love. I will say we didn’t even get into this, but I feel like the whole coaching industry and a lot of LCS coaches have gone through a sort of awakening in the last year, I would say, about social justice and racial justice and a lot of those issues.

Kara:

And I think one of the things that I really, this kind of relates to something I said about you earlier, but I really admired and respected how you moved through that because I felt like you were really, really willing to hear and listen and learn and really came to it from a place of humility and love with really, almost no defensiveness about your own privilege, or your own blind spots, or the things you hadn’t been aware of before.

Kara:

I think you really have not just a servant’s heart, but a student’s heart, which I think is like such a powerful way to go through life and I think it is the secret to your success, because you’re always willing to learn and grow and with sort of very little, I think so many people, even coaches, even myself, even me, of course, me, I have a human brain, but even coaches can get kind of defensive when somebody’s like, “No, you’re not seeing this or you’re missing this or you don’t understand this.” And we can get kind of like, “Ugh.”

Kara:

I feel like you are just always like, “Tell me more. I want to know.” And I felt like your attitude towards that whole thing was like, “Okay, maybe I’ve had blind spots. Maybe there’s things that I didn’t know. I want to do the best I can for my students, so what do I need to know? Where, how can I learn? I just felt like you showed up through that process which can be very uncomfortable, like an awakening or privilege in that way in such a beautiful way.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, and you were so good to help me, too because I didn’t know a lot and you were the first person I would text or message and just say like, “Hey, I don’t know this. What is this?” And you really led the way especially in LCS, you were one of the big leaders and first people to kind of jump out there and start talking about, “We got to learn this stuff.” We can’t just sit back and I appreciated that and I’ve watched you on your social, I mean, I’m always somebody that watches how people who are doing it the way that I might, that’s the way.

Corinne Crabtree:

Like that right there, I watched you like a student and you really showed, especially for all of us in LCS, I think, and a handful of people really shot out fast and led the way and I think just being the people who did that for people like me who didn’t know what to do, but were willing to go there, it just it made it easier for us. It made it a lot more… the human brain is always scared of what it doesn’t know and it was like this whole arena of shit that I didn’t know jack shit about.

Corinne Crabtree:

But I just, I loved having somebody that I felt like was supportive and willing to give. I mean, the amount of help and the amount of just teaching and everything that you have given all of us over the last year in in a thousand different ways not even just that. I mean it’s I think that’s the other thing that a lot of people, I don’t know if they know this about you, but as in your face is Kara isn’t shot. She’s actually got a soft spot for helping people. I mean, you have always been such a giver in the coaching community and a real expert opinion and an expert voice. It’s definitely not unseen. Let me tell you, you should be very proud of yourself, Ms. Kara.

Kara:

Can I choose my thoughts to do that? It’s just like one big love fest and now, Corinne is safe. I can’t stroke across the screen, but let me tell you, when we’re all vaccinated, there is going to be a lot of forced hug, a lot of cuddling. I will get consent first, but it’s going to be aggressive.

Corinne Crabtree:

It’s all right. I’ve promised everybody in the world now that we haven’t been able to hug that I would never bitch about it one more time.

Kara:

Right? I mean, the thing that you… what I wouldn’t give to be in a roomful of a thousand of coaches being like, “Ah, stop touching me.”

Corinne Crabtree:

Exactly. Exactly.

Kara:

I love it. Thank you for coming on and sharing your wisdom with us as always.

Corinne Crabtree:

Well, thank you for having me. It was so fun, so I loved it.

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I'm Corinne Crabtree

Corinne Crabtree, top-rated podcaster, has helped millions of women lose weight by blending common-sense methods with behavior-based psychology.

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